Thick blood

[Mom]

Has anyone heard that a byproduct of high TRT levels is thick blood? My husband's T level is still running high (1800, 1000, 751) so he has to get his hemoglobin tested. He was on 5 mg (Androgel) and went to 5 mg and 2 1/2 mg every other day. He took the test late in the day and two days after he did the 70 mile LAF bike ride challenge in Phila and still tested at 751. He doesn't want to go to 2 1/2 mg/day. Dianne

[Michael112]

Yes when testosterone is above physiological range then blood count can be too high, its like reverse anemia, that is why TRT has T levels kept within range.
1800 for T is steroid levels.
His T levels should be between 650-1000.

If his blood count is too high but everything else is normal(blood pressure, testosterone level) Then he can simply start donating blood, or have it thrown out if they wont accept it. But if his levels are ever going over 1000 then this can create serious problems, and high blood count is one of them.

[Fish]

Dianne:

I agree, excessive testosterone can cause an increase in the number of red blood cells. Excercise can also increase RBC numbers as can living at higher altitudes. A hemaglobin measure is probably only one of several tests to run. They will likely also run a hematocrit, which tells you what percentage of the blood is RBC's and also look at measurements of the red cells. For an adult male, the hematocrit should be less than 51, if I remember my hematology correctly. The one caution about hematocrits is that they are affected by hydration status -- if you're dehydrated your hematocrit can be a few points higher.

Donating/discarding whole blood might help in the short term, but would not address the underlying cause. Additionally, he would also be losing palsma proteins, such as clotting factors, antibodies, albumin, etc. Although these proteins are replaced relative quickly, it's probably not a long term solution.

Will he exhibit low T symptoms if he drops to 2.5mg/day? Is he by any chance taking megadoses of vitamin b12? This has also been shown to increase RBC production. I was taking b12 injections (1000 - 2000 micrograms/week) for about a year to try to treat sciatic nerve pain, and my hematocrit went from 45 to 50, so I stopped the B12.

Best wishes.
Jim

[Mom]

Thanks, guys. He has no testicles so whatever is causing this high rate has to be something he is doing/taking. He is incredibly active. At the gym every day at 5:00 am. He bikes and golfs, right now he is in Pulaski, NY fishing with his son. He is always busy. When he got the high rate (1800)the test was taken in the morning on his way to work after he had applied the gel. I know he takes vitamins (some kind of mega vitamins he gets at a health store). Maybe that is the culprit. He definitely gets hot flashes when he is down to 2.5 mg. His T level was always on the low side until he started the Androgel. I haven't gone 36 years with him for this marriage to end with a stroke!! His doctor told him not to waste any time getting the test so he must be concerned. He has no blood pressure or cholestoral problems. He sees the urologist every 3-6 months for bladder cancer and checks his T-level every six months. The doctor said that they are no longer concerned with TRT causing prostate cancer. Jeez, something else to worry about. Dianne

[nickohs]

Polycythemia (thick blood) is known to occur, but it is rare.

It seems to me your husbands test results are skewed and not to be relied upon. My guess is that the blood was drawn from near the location the gel was applied.

The best way to get a picture for a guy with no testicles is to test in the morning prior to applying the gel. This will give the morning baseline.
I would then test in the afternoon, after about 6 hours in order to see what the high point is.

I would be amazed if your husbands levels were really that high. I too have no testicles and cannot get that high even when using two full packs of gel.
My levels are around 600

I hope this helps

best wishes,

Nick

Has anyone heard that a byproduct of high TRT levels is thick blood? My husband's T level is still running high (1800, 1000, 751) so he has to get his hemoglobin tested. He was on 5 mg (Androgel) and went to 5 mg and 2 1/2 mg every other day. He took the test late in the day and two days after he did the 70 mile LAF bike ride challenge in Phila and still tested at 751. He doesn't want to go to 2 1/2 mg/day. Dianne

[Michael112]

Yea come to think of it, 1800 on gels is unlikely, its common for test results to come back high on gels from the blood being taken from where the gel was put on.

If I understand correctly, the doctor wants to test his hemoglobin only because his testosterone level came out at 1800?
So thick blood hasnt been confirmed, and he has no symptoms?

If he gets tested again, and his full blood test comes back all normal(kidneys, liver etc) he should be allowed to run 5mg a day.

[Mom]

His first test came in at 1800 a year ago. The doctor thought it was because they drew the blood from his arm right after he put the gel on. He had him take the second test in late afternoon (5:30 PM) and that tested at 1000. He then had him switch on/off 5 mg/2.5 mg every other day trying to get it lower. This test showed 751. The doctor felt that rate was still too high and wanted my husband to go to 2.5 mg/day. My husband does not want to go that low. It was at that point (yesterday) that the doctor thought he should have his hemoglobin tested. He has no symptoms of thick blood. I think if his hemoglobin is okay the doctor will let him continue with the 5/2.5 application. Dianne

[Michael112]

751 is perfectly fine.

[stitch]

I also have slightly elevated RBC count (polycythemia)

My doctor wasn't overly concerned about it, but said it was not something we could just ignore either, because it does put additional stress on the cardiovascular system. Just like you don't want to ignore high blood pressure. On my doctor's request, I donate 1 unit of whole blood per month at the regular blood bank. Right now, FDA guidelines prohibit thier using the blood of a person diagnosed with polycythemia so they throw mine away, but I'm told they are working on new rules to give the medical directors of the blood banks discretion to use the blood of otherwise healthy donors who have polycythemia, hemachromotosis, etc.

[Michael112]

how elevated were you and if its related, what is your testosterone level?

[stitch]

I was consistently at 51, just barely elevated

I think they like men to be 30-50, not sure about the bottom #. Mine appears to be related, because it was within the proper range before TRT treatment. My total T has been right around 750, taken in mid-morning. Free T around 275, if I remember right. I'm soon to be 43 and feel awesome ever since my TRT started April 2005, so I sure don't mind the blood donoring if that's what it takes to be able to keep my TRT. Besides, there is a fair amount of evidence that men who donate recieve some real health benefits because it keeps thier bodies iron stores low, regardless of if you have polycythemia or not. One study (just going from memory here, so my #'s might be off a little), in Finland followed a few thousand men for I think 10 years, and after controlling for other risk factors, smoking, age, dietary habits, etc. the men who donated regularly had something like 80% fewer cardiovascular events than men who didn't. Other studies have shown much more modest benefits, but I think its safe to say that donating blood (for men especially) has an upside. By the way, as far as 751 being "too high", I personally disagree. I think a total T of 750-950 and free T of 250-350 or thereabouts is a very healthy range. Going any higher, I think, doesn't do anything beneficial and increases the likelihood of your T's aromatization to estrogen.