possible testosterone implant

[huckchef]

Going to see the urologist in a couple of weeks and was really looking into trying the testosterone implants. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Brian

[Michael112]

yea dont goto a uro/endo for your TRT, they will underdose you with pellets which will waste your time.
Your much better off seeing an anti-aging doctor at a clinic.

[Scott]

Your much better off seeing an anti-aging doctor at a clinic.

I'm skeptical.

[Michael112]

You shouldnt be, its fairly obvious conventional medicine is behind on TRT, my doctor has one patient who needed gynocemastia surgery he had seen 10 endos for the problem, none of them knew nothing, they all deny the usefullness of Arimidex, although on the Arimidex website it visually shows how it works showing its use of preventing testosterone from converting to estrogens.

[Scott]

I remain skeptical about the very concept of "anti-aging."

[stitch]

Like Shakespeare said, "What's in a name?"

What if they called themselves "hormone replacement clinics" instead of using the term "anti-aging"? They don't claim to stop aging or even slow it down, only to help men maintain a good quality of life and avoid the symptoms that accompany age-related hormone decline for as long as possible. The only reason these anti-aging clinics came into existance is to serve men who are androgen deficient that the conventional medical community has abandoned.
So now these same physicians have the nerve to critisize the anti-aging clinics and the service they provide? They would not even exist if androgen deficient men could obtain proper treatment from thier regular physicians. I myself have no respect whatsoever for these "doctors" who rail against the anti-aging clinics. The mainstream conventional medical community chose to abandon those suffering from male hypogonadism, and there comes a point for all of us when we reap what we have sown. If men walk away from thier GP's, Uros, Endos, etc. in droves to obtain proper TRT at an anti-aging clinic, I consider that justice. After many years of being directly lied to and denied TRT by GP's, Uros, Endos, etc, I can promise you I speak from experience. (please see my previous posts for my own personal history). I personally would never again go near a Uro, Endo or GP again with anything having to do with TRT. Your chances of being told the truth and obtaining proper TRT are essentially zero. Anyone agree with me or disagree? Any other viewpoints out there?

[Michael112]

I agree but I dont think these doctors are lying on purpose, from what I have gathered from other doctors, people, and what I have been told to by endos and uros, the problem is there just not taught properly about the subject in med school. But it is still sad that they cant think for themselves and realise there must be a problem with the way there treating with TRT and how they diagnose it.

[huckchef]

I can honestly say that my uro has all the experience and knowledge to handle this. He has been more than concerned about my HRT than anyone else. Maybe because he is young himself, he understands the importance of proper HRT. But the endo I was seeing seems to be just as though you speak about. Not to worried or concerned. Just "everything is normal" but then when I asked well what were the results they say "well it's just a little off but close to normal"! That's when I decided to go another route and that route was via my uro. If in time I don't get what I feel is proper HRT from him I'll look elsewhere.
Brian

[Michael112]

I remain skeptical about the very concept of "anti-aging."

Anti-Aging doctors are the ones who know best about HRT, wether the concept of anti-aging medicine is true or not isnt relevent, just like urologists primary specialism is in urinary tract diseases among other things such as hormones, "anti-aging" physicians have TRT in there field also, and they know how to treat with it better then other doctors.

[Scott]

...wether the concept of anti-aging medicine is true or not isnt relevent...

I'm afraid it affects my willingness to trust the science and motivation behind the services.

[Michael112]

I'm afraid it affects my willingness to trust the science and motivation behind the services.

I have read a lot of other peoples stories on there hypogonadism, urologists and endocrinologists dont listen to symptoms, you can goto specialists with a total testosterone level of 350ng/dl with symptoms and they wont treat you and say your normal.
If they do treat you and you end up with gynecomastia they will say theres nothing they can do and to have radiation or surgery for it while you live with high estrogen levels which affect brain chemistry and fertility and the overall quality of the TRT.

They also put patients on an injection regimen which a lot complain about, injections every 3 weeks seems to be a common extreme and I have heard of patients discontinuing there TRT because they were sick of the hormonal rollercoaster ride of injections every 3 weeks, obviously the doctors either dont care enough or dont know enough to explain to these patients that they would be better off with weekly injections, which is stated as an option in the medicines leaflet.

Theres a lot of other particulars I could get into to explain the ignorance of endos and uros when it comes to TRT but I dont feel I have to, all you have to do is go over to the other forums and read the situations of people who have had trouble with conventional medicine. Remember that doctors have a lot of government pressure and peer pressure to stick strictly to the medical guidelines and if they all did that I am sure a few of the guys here would still have elevated bHCG, gyno and other problems, theres no doubt something is wrong, probly because it is not a very common problem like diabetes or PCOS.

But now your probly thinking, well hang on, if its such a problem, surely they would of done something about it by now? Well it seems there accustomed to turning people down and having people seek 2nd 3rd 4th opinions etc, these patients usually live with the poorer quality of life thinking there is no better option or that they need anti-depresants or viagra, and these doctors honestly believe there right. Just like TC is misdiagnosed 30% of the time and 18,000 people die a year in Australia from surgical mishaps, this is just another issue in medicine.

As for the trust of these doctors, apart from the few shonky ones who like to use these hormones at unsafe levels(particuarly testosterone), they tend to be doctors who have gained an intrest in this field and who have used there medical knowledge to seek answers and have a genuine care for there patients, not run of the mill doctors who zealously protect themselves and there reputation for there peers or any professors that might be above them, which they do at the expense of there patients health. Theres many pubmed and medical articles which very positively mention Arimidex's and HCG's use in TRT.

[nickohs]

I thought I'd add my two cents worth to this discussion.

It is very easy to generalise when thinking about the vagaries of Hypogonadism and those who know about it. But I believe that is a mistake.

Within each discipline under discussion here there are those who want to know and those who don't.

Equally, when contemplating therapies, levels and reactions, it is wise to understand we all differ and that what is good for one is not necessarily good for everyone.

For example: I know Dr John advocates T levels in the upper quartile. I personally believe this to be bad advice,because some men exist very happily on lower levels than this and to increase their levels, as Dr John suggests, leaves them open to Aromatase. (T to E conversion)

Therefore, my golden rule in advocacy is to treat everyone individually and make sure I cannot be sued for the advice I give. I think an advocate who gives dosing and advice on desirable levels (numbers), is open to just such legal complications.

I hope this helps

Nick

[stitch]

Very well said

"As for the trust of these doctors....they tend to be doctors who have gained an intrest in this field and who have used there medical knowledge to seek answers and have a genuine care for there patients, not run of the mill doctors who zealously protect themselves and there reputation for there peers or any professors that might be above them, which they do at the expense of there patients health. Theres many pubmed and medical articles which very positively mention Arimidex's and HCG's use in TRT."

I know there are different approaches that each individual physician may prefer to take in treating various conditions, but male hypogonadism is undoubtedly unique in that very few physicians even have any interest in learning about TRT or how they might be able to help thier androgen deficient patients. With diabetes or thyroid disorders, for example, an endo is expected to be knowledgeable of the very best and latest in research, diagnostics, treatments, and so on. With male hypogonadism, it is considered acceptable for a young man to present to an endo with a total T of 250 and severe symptoms of androgen deficiency, only to be sent away and told that "everything is normal!" I know this is true because I myself was that patient on several different occasions. There is no way I can believe that this is not deliberate on the "doctors" part or that they simply don't know better. I honestly believe that these so-called "doctors" should be stripped of thier medical licenses for gross misconduct and dishonesty. Endos are supposed to be experts in the treatment of disorders of hormones of the endocrine system, which includes the testes. I find it impossible to believe that any endo doesn't know how to initiate, maintain, and monitor TRT, control aromatase with Arimidex, stimulate the testes or remaining testicle with HCG injections, monitor PSA and Hct, etc. Many of the people on this message board (most of us laymen with no formal medical training) seem to have a very extensive understanding of androgen deficiency and TRT, but I'm supposed to believe that ENDOS of all people know nothing about it ???
Sorry for the sour attitude, but I do know that there is far more money to be made in treating a man's individual symptoms of androgen deficiency than in simply giving him proper TRT. If androgen deficient men were routinely given proper TRT, far fewer scripts would be needed for the drug companies cash cows, like Viagra, anti-depressants, cardiac risk factor management drugs like statins, etc. There is enormous money to be made in NOT giving men TRT so that the individual symptoms can be treated with patentable drugs. Again, sorry for the cynical attitude. Usually I'm not much into conspiracy theories but after years of first hand experience doing battle with the medical community, I really do believe that (with very rare exceptions) profits and career advancement are much higher priorities than helping sick people.

[kurt Hansen]

Hi
I must admit it`s a bit hard for me to understand your problems, it could be
my english there is not good enough.
I have now been on injektiens and gel for 3 years and I feel good most of the time, and for me it`s hard to say if I´m tired if it´s the hormones or because I´m getting old or something else.
I`m now on 50 mg testim a day and once a week I take 100 mg, I have also been on 75 mg a day and I don`t think I can feel any diffrints, but my doctor said that my bloodtest showed that the couns was in the high end so thats why I went back on 50 mg a day.
So I can`t understand why you don`t try to see how you feel with 50-75 or even 100 mg a day.
I hope I don`t sound like it`s no big deal but to me it has been very good being on hormones and I think I live a very normal life to day.

[Michael112]

stitch, I have the sour attitude also, but I dont hold there ignorance against them personally although I have a problem with there lies to patients in general.

I have contacted a particular professor in the field of male hormone replacement, I have also spoken to my GP of 6 years, and from what they have told me they honestly dont know better, its hard to understand because usually doctors and especially professors are ment to know about the pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics of many medicines but it seems they dont.
I told my urologist I was gonna use HCG and he was genuinely concerned, most doctors are extremely particular with what they do and prescribe, to the point where I have had a doctor refuse to write a script for a hormone blood test.
I believe the problem stems from the way medicine is done in general.
The broad reference range for normal T level may be a money issue, but the fact doctors dont know what is going on is another problem, it also doesnt help that testosterone is a criminalised substance.