just when i thought everything was going good....

[DAWN82]

I called mary ann yesterday to get Brian's markers that were done yesterday morning, they went up! his hcg went from 2.9 to 3.3

im freaking out now, does this mean he is getting sicker again? i asked mary ann why they cant just do something soon and she said that want to wait a few weeks! im concerned that within those fews weeks, the markers will rise high, i know its agressive. he still goes to the liver surgeon tuesday, but i dont see a point, seeing how his markers are still elevated, this is not fair to him. so as you can see, its a another set back


Dawn

[Scott]

You shouldn't consider that an increase. Both test results are well within normal range, and AFP measurements can fluctuate a bit. Imagine you're scooping letters out of alphabet soup with a spoon. With the same number of letters in the bowl, one spoonful might pull out four letters, and another might scoop out six.

[DAWN82]

You shouldn't consider that an increase. Both test results are well within normal range, and AFP measurements can fluctuate a bit. Imagine you're scooping letters out of alphabet soup with a spoon. With the same number of letters in the bowl, one spoonful might pull out four letters, and another might scoop out six.

the surgeon said his AFP is normal, but the HCG is elevated...at 3.3, so this is not a bad thing? the last blood test he had before yesterday was on monday the 10th

[dadmo]

Dawn:
I wouldn't worry about that little bit of change. My son's numbers bounced around for quite awhile after he was treated. He had 4-5 checks in a row where the numbers went up. It used to freak me out to, now the doctor just lists his labs as normal.

[DAWN82]

Dawn:
I wouldn't worry about that little bit of change. My son's numbers bounced around for quite awhile after he was treated. He had 4-5 checks in a row where the numbers went up. It used to freak me out to, now the doctor just lists his labs as normal.

DADMO, IT WENT UP HOW LONG AFTER TREATMENT? WAS IT THE HCG? OR AFP. BIANS AFP IS NORMAL, DO YOU REMEBER THE #'S?

DAWN

[Karen]

Dawn,
Both AFP and HCG will bounce a little. What is the normal range for the lab yoyu are using? Most labs list 0-5 as the normal range. 2.9 to 3.3 really is a small fuuctuation that may have no significance.

[DAWN82]

Dawn,
Both AFP and HCG will bounce a little. What is the normal range for the lab yoyu are using? Most labs list 0-5 as the normal range. 2.9 to 3.3 really is a small fuuctuation that may have no significance.

HI KAREN, its the lab at sloan kettering... not sure what the range is.. his dr. said yesterday. that his hcg is slightly elevated. i believe his AFP is normal.

[Fed]

Dawn,

I must concur with everyone here. The difference between 2.9 and 3.3 is minuscule, and likely to be within the margin of error of the test. I would be more concerned if it jumped to, say, 10. No matter how reputable the lab is, you will always find some variations, and the change you described seems to be statistically insignificant.

[DAWN82]

Dawn,

I must concur with everyone here. The difference between 2.9 and 3.3 is minuscule, and likely to be within the margin of error of the test. I would be more concerned if it jumped to, say, 10. No matter how reputable the lab is, you will always find some variations, and the change you described seems to be statistically insignificant.

FED, I SOOOO hope you are right, i just dont understand why, in the beginning, the markers came down so fast! and now, its like 1 point every 2 weeks and now its going up. and im scared that, it will go up higher before his next test. do you think that if it was going to go up, it would have gone higher than what it did?

[dadmo]

Dawn:
If he had active disease I would expect a large jump in the markers, these small flucuations are within the statistical margin of error. When Jason's HCG bounced around it went from less then 2 to 4.

[DAWN82]

Dawn:
If he had active disease I would expect a large jump in the markers, these small flucuations are within the statistical margin of error. When Jason's HCG bounced around it went from less then 2 to 4.

his hcg? or his afp fluctuated? im sorry im asking so many questions

dawn

[Fed]

FED, I SOOOO hope you are right, i just dont understand why, in the beginning, the markers came down so fast! and now, its like 1 point every 2 weeks and now its going up.

OK, here comes the geek in me, but this might help you understand why the drop is quick at first and then slows down. The degradation of tumor markers in the body follows an exponential decay. The link I have placed will show you the general equation that governs such phenomenon. Since the degradation depends on the amount of circulating marker, the more marker there is, the faster the rate of decay. After a while, there will be little marker, so the rate will decrease proportionally. I don't know if this is too technical, but it is the accurate explanation for why the drops are so dramatic during treatment and then slow down considerably. Hope this helps.

[DAWN82]

OK, here comes the geek in me, but this might help you understand why the drop is quick at first and then slows down. The degradation of tumor markers in the body follows an exponential decay. The link I have placed will show you the general equation that governs such phenomenon. Since the degradation depends on the amount of circulating marker, the more marker there is, the faster the rate of decay. After a while, there will be little marker, so the rate will decrease proportionally. I don't know if this is too technical, but it is the accurate explanation for why the drops are so dramatic during treatment and then slow down considerably. Hope this helps.

THANK YOU FED ... I THINK I UNDERSTAND
IM JUST SCARED, I KNOW MAYBE I SHOULDNT BE, BUT I AM.

[milwaukeejoe]

In June, when I was just getting ready to be discharged after high-dose chemo, and my HCG had been steadily declining, out of the blue, it went from 1.9 to 2.9. The blip freaked us out, but that's all it was--a blip. After that, the numbers continued to come down, and now they are less than 1.

Einhorn said that these blips happen, and that the may be due to the practical limits of labs in measuring the hormone, or due to normal fluctuations in the body. He also says that if disease is coming back, HCG will really shoot up--like it will be near 100 within a week or two. I certainly found that to be the case when I had a relapse.

All of which is to say, I know it's hard not to worry, but there is nothing alarming, from a medical point of view, about the slight rise in Brian's numbers.

[Fish]

Hi Dawn:

Hang in there. I'll echo what everyone esle said, this is a fluctuation likely within the error range of the test.

I would not be surprised if you ran the test on different portions of the SAME blood sample and saw this type of variation.

I know it's stressful, but at this point, you should't worry too much.

Thoughts and prayers coming you way!