just when i thought everything was going good....

[dadmo]

Dawn:
It was Jason's HCG that kept elevating. It never got above 5 and then all on it own it began to drop.

[petep]

hi dawn -

it is scary how much these markers can control you...bhcg drove me nuts...

you want this to be a perfect science, black & white...read enough from even the experts, and you find anything over zero is elevated, then you read under 2 is fine...and some say under 5 is fine....

other sites say bhcg should never be elevated in males, ever....and then, I have an email from dr. einhorn saying there are some males that have elevated hcg and have no cancer and never will have it....he once wrote me and said if hcg was under 10 and there were no other signs of cancer on xrays or CT scans, he would never start chemo....

a good friend who works in a lab and conducts these tests reinforced what fed said...namely the reliability (from one test to the next) is not perfect and there is a margin of error...

In the end, I suppose this is what living as cancer patient on surveillance is about....the ups/downs etc....

I wish there was something I could say to relieve the anxiety...but there isn't really, beyond reinforcing this is a tiny jump, that many have gone thru, and all turns out fine...one day at a time...

pete

[Russell's Mom]

Hang on Dawn! It seems just as we get our feet on the ground it starts to quake again. Notice that I live in Californina. With Russell it was the Bleo Tox. I think that it was occurring during chemo and they just kept passing me off as a worried mother. It is frightening and it seems like no one can really hear you!!! Reading through the posts however, it looks like Brian is in the right hands...they are looking and hearing. Just like Russell needed a Mom, Brian needs your happy and healthy reflections!!....his girlfriend. No one else can be that, if he doesn't have you there, he won't get that sweetness at all! Keep the balance!!! Livestrong, Sharon

[DAWN82]

Thank You Everyone..

thanks for the boosts.. but, its just soooooo scary because, they have never gone up before this past test and hes almost 2 months post chemo, im just afraid the cancer is coming back, it only went up .4, but to me its alot because its never gone up. what if the chemo is wearing off? im freaking!

dawn

[sldl1106]

Dawn -

This happened to Rob also, the post is floating around here somewhere. It was around 12 or something, then went up a point-and-a-bit and I just freaked out. Everyone calmed me down, and the next labs showed another decrease of several points. I remember crying after talking to Mary Ann; she was happy that it had gone down also!

Margaret described it to me as this: bucketful of water with, say, blueberries floating in it. One time you dip your hand in, you come up with 15. Next time, 9. Next time, maybe 11. It just fluctuates sometimes, and that's normal.

Try to not give too much focus to it, (if you can) and wait for the next test.

[dollfin1204]

Dawn, I just read through the thread. I'm sorry for what you are having to feel right now. I know I would be feeling the exact same way.
After reading what everyone has wrote, it seems that they are all right. It probably isn't anything to worry about to much. I know that's easier said than done. Steve and I have seemed to be following in yours and Brians footsteps and when I read your first post in this thread my stomach turned. But everyone's responses made me feel better.
Keep strong!
Huggs
Sabrina

[Fish]

Hi Dawn:

Hang in there. I'll echo what everyone esle said, this is a fluctuation likely within the error range of the test.

I would not be surprised if you ran the test on different portions of the SAME blood sample and saw this type of variation.

I know it's stressful, but at this point, you should't worry too much.

Thoughts and prayers coming you way!

[milwaukeejoe]

In June, when I was just getting ready to be discharged after high-dose chemo, and my HCG had been steadily declining, out of the blue, it went from 1.9 to 2.9. The blip freaked us out, but that's all it was--a blip. After that, the numbers continued to come down, and now they are less than 1.

Einhorn said that these blips happen, and that the may be due to the practical limits of labs in measuring the hormone, or due to normal fluctuations in the body. He also says that if disease is coming back, HCG will really shoot up--like it will be near 100 within a week or two. I certainly found that to be the case when I had a relapse.

All of which is to say, I know it's hard not to worry, but there is nothing alarming, from a medical point of view, about the slight rise in Brian's numbers.

[DAWN82]

OK, here comes the geek in me, but this might help you understand why the drop is quick at first and then slows down. The degradation of tumor markers in the body follows an exponential decay. The link I have placed will show you the general equation that governs such phenomenon. Since the degradation depends on the amount of circulating marker, the more marker there is, the faster the rate of decay. After a while, there will be little marker, so the rate will decrease proportionally. I don't know if this is too technical, but it is the accurate explanation for why the drops are so dramatic during treatment and then slow down considerably. Hope this helps.

THANK YOU FED ... I THINK I UNDERSTAND
IM JUST SCARED, I KNOW MAYBE I SHOULDNT BE, BUT I AM.

[Fed]

FED, I SOOOO hope you are right, i just dont understand why, in the beginning, the markers came down so fast! and now, its like 1 point every 2 weeks and now its going up.

OK, here comes the geek in me, but this might help you understand why the drop is quick at first and then slows down. The degradation of tumor markers in the body follows an exponential decay. The link I have placed will show you the general equation that governs such phenomenon. Since the degradation depends on the amount of circulating marker, the more marker there is, the faster the rate of decay. After a while, there will be little marker, so the rate will decrease proportionally. I don't know if this is too technical, but it is the accurate explanation for why the drops are so dramatic during treatment and then slow down considerably. Hope this helps.

[DAWN82]

Dawn:
If he had active disease I would expect a large jump in the markers, these small flucuations are within the statistical margin of error. When Jason's HCG bounced around it went from less then 2 to 4.

his hcg? or his afp fluctuated? im sorry im asking so many questions

dawn

[dadmo]

Dawn:
If he had active disease I would expect a large jump in the markers, these small flucuations are within the statistical margin of error. When Jason's HCG bounced around it went from less then 2 to 4.

[DAWN82]

Dawn,

I must concur with everyone here. The difference between 2.9 and 3.3 is minuscule, and likely to be within the margin of error of the test. I would be more concerned if it jumped to, say, 10. No matter how reputable the lab is, you will always find some variations, and the change you described seems to be statistically insignificant.

FED, I SOOOO hope you are right, i just dont understand why, in the beginning, the markers came down so fast! and now, its like 1 point every 2 weeks and now its going up. and im scared that, it will go up higher before his next test. do you think that if it was going to go up, it would have gone higher than what it did?

[Fed]

Dawn,

I must concur with everyone here. The difference between 2.9 and 3.3 is minuscule, and likely to be within the margin of error of the test. I would be more concerned if it jumped to, say, 10. No matter how reputable the lab is, you will always find some variations, and the change you described seems to be statistically insignificant.

[DAWN82]

Dawn,
Both AFP and HCG will bounce a little. What is the normal range for the lab yoyu are using? Most labs list 0-5 as the normal range. 2.9 to 3.3 really is a small fuuctuation that may have no significance.

HI KAREN, its the lab at sloan kettering... not sure what the range is.. his dr. said yesterday. that his hcg is slightly elevated. i believe his AFP is normal.