Choriocarcinoma

[Already Bald]

The one that tends to break that rule frequently is chorio, for the same reason I mentioned at the beginning of the thread.

Also Embryonal Carcinoma, as was my case. I had a clean RPLND, then recurrence of what we think is EC through the vascular system. (In right lung).
I had a needle biopsy of the lung tumor, which confirmed germ cell cancer, but not enough tissue to determine exact make up. Chemo cleared up the tumor, so it wasn't teratoma- and markers normalized after the I/O- so they told me it was likely EC.

So, thank you from me too, Fed. I didn't know that choria always produces high bHCG levels. You've helped me put some of the puzzle pieces together in my own health history.

LiveSTRONG,
Joe

[CharlieFL]

Thanks Fed...you da man!

[Fed]

Hey Fed, what exactly does "burnt out in the testicle" mean? - never heard that term used before

"Burnt out" means that the tumor grew so quickly, that it outlived its blood supply. Cancer cells have the uncanny ability to force detours on the bloodstream so they can feed; however, if the cancer grows too quickly and too aggressively, it will not receive sufficient nutrients to sustain such rapid growth. The end result is necrosis due to starvation.

another question about teratomas, i remember reading in the forum that teratomas can't spread through lympatic system alone! can anyone correct me?

Funny that you ask this... I actually asked my oncologist a question on the same lines. As it turns out, all of the germ cell tumors are capable of traveling through the bloodstream. The most accessible way to travel from the testis, though, is through the lymphatics, hence the predictable route of spread. The one that tends to break that rule frequently is chorio, for the same reason I mentioned at the beginning of the thread.

[Sercan]

teratomas

another question about teratomas, i remember reading in the forum that teratomas can't spread through lympatic system alone! can anyone correct me?

[CharlieFL]

because it had burnt out in the testicle

Hey Fed, what exactly does "burnt out in the testicle" mean? - never heard that term used before

[sldl1106]

Fed, I have such a crush on you and all your detailed explanations for us.

[Lori]

Fed, thank you for all the information on Teratoma. Jon had it throughout is lymphatic system and although doctors explained what it was, there was always a level of "now what is teratoma again" between Jon and I. Luckily the surgeons removed all of it from Jon, but I still find it frustrating that I didn't fully understand what it was. So Thanks!

[mk6439]

Dawn, when you say you never got the answers after the biopsies, do you mean the biopsies were inconclusive or that the docs never told you the specific types? If it's the latter, you can ask the docs to fax you copies of the pathology reports.

[DAWN82]

This is a bit inaccurate. Teratomas in males are always malignant, which is not the case for ovarian teratomas. Remember my analogy about the confused cells? Well, teratomas are far more confused. When an embryo develops, there are three layers of cells that are clearly demarkated. Each layer will develop into the different organs that make the human body. In a teratoma, all of the layers are jumbled around and mixed with each other. In some specimens, you can find bone tissue next to intestinal epithelium, surrounded by neuronal tissue with a hint of liver cells (they look really messed up under the scope). The "benign cell behavior" arises from the fact that these cells divide too slowly to be easily eliminated by chemo, and since they are developing abnormally, they can degenerate into other cancers that are actually more malignant and invasive than TC.

THANK YOU FOR CLEARING THAT UP FED, I UNDERSTAND IT MUCH BETTER NOW ....... SO I GUESS ITS A GOOD THING THAT THEY ARE COMING OUT

[Fed]

[...] but how does teratoma, being benign, grow when there are malignant cells there? it just seems odd how some bad is growing, but then teratoma comes along and is not malingnant?

This is a bit inaccurate. Teratomas in males are always malignant, which is not the case for ovarian teratomas. Remember my analogy about the confused cells? Well, teratomas are far more confused. When an embryo develops, there are three layers of cells that are clearly demarkated. Each layer will develop into the different organs that make the human body. In a teratoma, all of the layers are jumbled around and mixed with each other. In some specimens, you can find bone tissue next to intestinal epithelium, surrounded by neuronal tissue with a hint of liver cells (they look really messed up under the scope). The "benign cell behavior" arises from the fact that these cells divide too slowly to be easily eliminated by chemo, and since they are developing abnormally, they can degenerate into other cancers that are actually more malignant and invasive than TC.

[DAWN82]

Dawn, don't worry. Rob and I didn't know what his tumor type was because it had burnt out in the testicle so the I/O didn't give us any information.

hi stacy, Brians tumor in his testicle is also burnt out, but he has yet to have the O/I. we were told that in the beginning when he had his 1st testicular sonogram.

[DAWN82]

I do remember that when Brian was 1st in sloan kettering, one of the fellows came in and discussed wth us the different types of cells, all i remembered was that it was non-seminoma, everything was just a big blurr that day
then we just never got the answers. Brian also had a biopsy of the tumor in his back in the begining but we didnt find out then either. so, i know some is teratoma, but how does teratoma, being benign, grow when there are malignant cells there? it just seems odd how some bad is growing, but then teratoma comes along and is not malingnant?

[Karen]

Pam,
There's a lot of strength and hope on this site...and I'm sending lots out to you and Les.

[Les' Mom]

I am so glad I read this thread. I have felt so guilt because I dont know what my son's TC is made up of. All I remember is that is was a mixed germ cell with teratomas and something about looking like a placenta.

I am so glad that both guys numbers are down.
My son's is going up. But we are still fighting with TIP now.
I guess I need to add his info at the need.
Diagnosed 5/6/07 Right Removal 5/8/07 Finished 4x BEP 7/30/07 CAT scans showed spots on liver, 12 in lungs, and 5 cm mass in lymph nodes still present after chemo. Spot in brain had clear up. HCG 19 7/30/07 HCG 999 9/27/07 Started TIP 10/2/2007

[sldl1106]

Wow Dollfin, that is wonderful that his HcG has normalized.

Dawn, don't worry. Rob and I didn't know what his tumor type was because it had burnt out in the testicle so the I/O didn't give us any information. Right after the RPLND we were told it was probably all non-sem and mature teratoma, because the pathologist was there, and it wasn't until a week after the RPLND we knew for sure. I too was worried about chorio.

But, still lurking in the back of my mind is that there was a tiny bit of each kind live within the necrotic tissue; I won't be able to breathe right until his first true blood test comes back, and he's not even going for the bloodwork until I think the 16th of this month.